• food fite

    From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to All on Fri Jun 21 17:29:08 2024
    it would be cool if it was made into a mystic bbs game.


    --- WWIV 5.8.1.3688[Windows]
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Exodus@21:1/144 to Utopian Galt on Fri Jun 21 21:34:00 2024
    it would be cool if it was made into a mystic bbs game.

    That's just stupid. What's wrong with it being a regular door? I hate when people make things that are "bbs specific" that SHOULD be doors. There are ton of neat mystic doors that are wasted on shit because they are mystic only.

    I hate having to have a mystic setup to rlogon to so I can run MRC just to spawn off to run it from my board.

    ... Choking on another Xanth novel? Try the Heinlein Maneuver

    --- Renegade v1.35à/DOS
    * Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Exodus on Sat Jun 22 11:01:44 2024
    BY: Exodus (21:1/144)

    |11E|09> |10I hate having to have a mystic setup to rlogon to so I can run MRC just|07
    |11E|09> |10to|07
    |11E|09> |10spawn off to run it from my board.|07

    Not many people run wwiv, but more run Mystic.


    --- WWIV 5.8.1.3688[Windows]
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Exodus@21:1/144 to Utopian Galt on Sat Jun 22 16:03:30 2024
    to
    spawn off to run it from my board.

    Not many people run wwiv, but more run Mystic.

    Who runs WWiV? I'm talking about regular doors. Foodfite and Food Fight
    (as I have both here with another 750 other door games locally) are both doors made for ANY BBS that can make a drop file, mystic included.

    ... It's not 0 to 60 that counts... it's 85 to 55 that matters!

    --- Renegade v1.35à/DOS
    * Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)
  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to Exodus on Sun Jun 23 15:19:00 2024
    Re: Re: food fite
    By: Exodus to Utopian Galt on Sat Jun 22 2024 04:03 pm

    to
    spawn off to run it from my board.

    Not many people run wwiv, but more run Mystic.

    Who runs WWiV? I'm talking about regular doors.

    Maybe you're not aware of it, but one of the original and most popular online BBS games that goes by the name "Food Fight!" was written (by Rigor Mortis) as a "WWIV Chain". It works in all versions of Synchronet too, but not most other BBS programs since it sends its output via DOS int21h (not FOSSIL or direct UART/COM I/O), it sends WWIV color codes, not ANSI escape sequences, and it reads WWIV's CHAIN.TXT file (not any other "standard" drop file).
    https://www.bbsgames.org/wiki/Food_Fight
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Rush quote #73:
    He's wise enough to win the world, but fool enough to lose it ... New World Man Norco, CA WX: 94.5øF, 22.0% humidity, 12 mph WNW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)
  • From Exodus@21:1/144 to Digital Man on Sun Jun 23 18:27:09 2024


    Not many people run wwiv, but more run Mystic.

    Who runs WWiV? I'm talking about regular doors.

    Maybe you're not aware of it, but one of the original and most popular onl BBS games that goes by the name "Food Fight!" was written (by Rigor Mortis a "WWIV Chain". It works in all versions of Synchronet too, but not most o BBS programs since it sends its output via DOS int21h (not FOSSIL or direc UART/COM I/O), it sends WWIV color codes, not ANSI escape sequences, and i reads WWIV's CHAIN.TXT file (not any other "standard" drop file). https://www.bbsgames.org/wiki/Food_Fight

    Shouldn't this be able to run on any BBS that makes the CHAIN.TXT dropfile then?

    ... Enter any 12-digit prime number to continue.

    --- Renegade v1.35à/DOS
    * Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)
  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to Exodus on Sun Jun 23 18:21:01 2024
    Re: Re: food fite
    By: Exodus to Digital Man on Sun Jun 23 2024 06:27 pm



    Not many people run wwiv, but more run Mystic.

    Who runs WWiV? I'm talking about regular doors.

    Maybe you're not aware of it, but one of the original and most popular onl BBS games that goes by the name "Food Fight!" was written (by Rigor Mortis a "WWIV Chain". It works in all versions of Synchronet too, but not most o BBS programs since it sends its output via DOS int21h (not FOSSIL or direc UART/COM I/O), it sends WWIV color codes, not ANSI escape sequences, and i reads WWIV's CHAIN.TXT file (not any other "standard" drop file). https://www.bbsgames.org/wiki/Food_Fight

    Shouldn't this be able to run on any BBS that makes the CHAIN.TXT dropfile then?

    No. Most BBS programs do not intercept DOS int21h output from external programs, nor do they expand WWIV color codes (so-called "heart codes" because the escape character, Ctrl-C, can be rendered in CP437 as a heart symbol) to the appropriate (e.g. ANSI) escape sequences for the remote terminal. And for this reason, most BBS programs don't create the CHAIN.TXT dropfile either.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #45:
    I don't really think the end can be assessed as of itself as being the end Norco, CA WX: 91.0øF, 24.0% humidity, 8 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)
  • From Shurato@21:2/148 to Exodus on Mon Jun 24 22:13:00 2024

    it would be cool if it was made into a mystic bbs game.

    That's just stupid. What's wrong with it being a regular door? I hate when people make things that are "bbs specific" that SHOULD be
    doors. There are ton of neat mystic doors that are wasted on shit because they are mystic only.

    I hate having to have a mystic setup to rlogon to so I can run MRC just to spawn off to run it from my board.

    Agreed. And I wish I could use the bbs onliners and last call doors... I tried to write scripts to handle them, but failed miserably.

    --
    Shurato, Sysop Shurato's Heavenly Sphere (ssh, telnet, pop3, ftp,nntp,
    ,wss) (Ports 22,23,110,21,119,8080) (ssh login 'bbs' pass 'shsbbs').


    *** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
    ---
    * Origin: Shurato's Heavenly Sphere telnet://shsbbs.net (21:2/148)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Shurato on Mon Jun 24 23:00:14 2024
    I hate having to have a mystic setup to rlogon to
    so I can run MRC just to spawn off to run it from my board.

    I'm surprised nobody has written a stand-alone MRC door. A DOS MRC door is on my own to-do list, but a bit low on the list at the moment. Too many doors to crack. ;)

    Agreed. And I wish I could use the bbs onliners and last call doors... I tried to write scripts to handle them, but failed miserably.

    I guess the limiting factor for writing a cross-platform BBS oneliners and last call doors would be access to the message base. I don't know how many varieties of message base there would be to support? JAM, Squish, *.MSG?


    Chris/akacastor


    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From Shurato@21:2/148 to AKAcastor on Tue Jun 25 03:15:00 2024

    * In a message originally to Shurato, AKAcastor said:

    I hate having to have a mystic setup to rlogon to so I can run MRC just to spawn off to run it from my board.

    I'm surprised nobody has written a stand-alone MRC door. A DOS MRC door
    is on my own to-do list, but a bit low on the list at the moment. Too
    many doors to crack. ;)

    Agreed. And I wish I could use the bbs onliners and last call
    doors... I
    tried to write scripts to handle them, but failed miserably.

    I guess the limiting factor for writing a cross-platform BBS oneliners and last call doors would be access to the message base. I don't know how
    many varieties of message base there would be to support? JAM, Squish, *.MSG?

    Whatever, my BBS supports all 3, plus Hudson.

    --
    Shurato, Sysop Shurato's Heavenly Sphere (ssh, telnet, pop3, ftp,nntp,
    ,wss) (Ports 22,23,110,21,119,8080) (ssh login 'bbs' pass 'shsbbs').


    ---
    * Origin: Shurato's Heavenly Sphere telnet://shsbbs.net (21:2/148)
  • From Exodus@21:1/144 to Akacastor on Tue Jun 25 06:09:41 2024

    I'm surprised nobody has written a stand-alone MRC door. A DOS MRC door is my own to-do list, but a bit low on the list at the moment. Too many doors crack. ;)

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :)

    ... You and me against the world? Great! When do we attack?!?

    --- Renegade v1.35à/DOS
    * Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)
  • From Tiny@21:1/700 to AKACASTOR on Tue Jun 25 06:17:00 2024
    Quoting Akacastor to Shurato <=-

    I guess the limiting factor for writing a cross-platform BBS oneliners
    and last call doors would be access to the message base. I don't know
    how many varieties of message base there would be to support? JAM, Squish, *.MSG?

    There was a cross-platform oneliners a few years ago that stored the info
    on the interwebz instead of the message base. I wrote a door that worked
    with it and the last callers. Much easier then accessing the message
    base, but when he shut things down that was the end of it.

    Something 100% opensource that worked that way would be better.

    Shawn

    ... Electrician -- Person who wires for money
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (21:1/700)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Tiny on Tue Jun 25 10:43:24 2024
    There was a cross-platform oneliners a few years ago that stored the info on the interwebz instead of the message base. I wrote a door that worked with it and the last callers. Much easier then accessing the message base, but when he shut things down that was the end of it.

    That's an interesting idea. Maybe a 2-part system could work well, with the first part running on a server collecting and distributing oneliners/callers, and the second part being the local integration into a BBS (pulling from the server and displaying to the user).

    I guess the server would make sense to have a simple REST API and the clients could send HTTP GET to retrieve the lists. Should be pretty straightforward to implement on both ends.

    The second part of the system (local integration into BBS) could be done via whatever scripting the sysop chooses, or an external door (DOS? Win32? OS/2?) could be created. (at least this door wouldn't need access to message bases)

    Something I feel like always needs to be asked, because it supports everything - does Synchronet already support something like this? I think they do have a oneliner system at least. Is there any kind of standard to implement for this, before reinventing the wheel?


    Chris/akacastor

    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From fusion@21:1/616 to AKAcastor on Tue Jun 25 15:54:31 2024
    On 24 Jun 2024, AKAcastor said the following...

    I hate having to have a mystic setup to rlogon to
    so I can run MRC just to spawn off to run it from my board.

    I'm surprised nobody has written a stand-alone MRC door. A DOS MRC door is on my own to-do list, but a bit low on the list at the moment. Too many doors to crack. ;)

    OS/2 at least has a network stack exposed directly to the VDMs by default..
    but the library and all the stuff to link it together is hard to find. I'm not sure if Windows does (perhaps Windows NT did, as part of the early OS/2 support.. which is long gone after Windows 2000 iirc). Maybe Novell made something to support their old DOS network stack in a Windows VDM?

    I know you could use mTCP or something like that, but afaik that would only work on a VM, DosBox type program or a real machine. No Windows users. (and most "DOS" BBSes are just running on Windows. A DOS door implemented this way wouldn't be useful to Exodus for example)

    Maybe if the DOS door used named pipes to talk to a proper 32-bit locally-run server that then talked to the MRC server?

    I guess what I'm getting at is a DOS network door would see quite limited use and might be difficult to implement/run for the user.

    Sorry for blabbing. I just find this stuff interesting.. sort of brain storming stuff. I wrote a Windows MRC door early on but the protocol was so bad at that time I converted it probably 80% of the way to an (unrelased) irc door.. I haven't looked recently but originally any sysop could read all the private messages from every BBS lol

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
  • From fusion@21:1/616 to AKAcastor on Tue Jun 25 16:11:21 2024
    On 25 Jun 2024, AKAcastor said the following...

    Something I feel like always needs to be asked, because it supports everything - does Synchronet already support something like this? I
    think they do have a oneliner system at least. Is there any kind of standard to implement for this, before reinventing the wheel?

    i've thought about this and there are a few things that haven't come up because nobody has implemented the other parts. as an imaginary example:

    1) synchronet supports an instant messaging system so i decide to implement it for mystic.
    2) mystic has a internode messenger of it's own so i inject messages that way, and provide an alternate method for sending them outbound
    3) i verify all of the ports needed are open using the synchronet port scanner tool
    4) i'm a mystic bbs and can't get on the synchronet bbs list

    i'm unsure what else is tied to the synchronet bbs list

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
  • From Exodus@21:1/144 to Fusion on Tue Jun 25 19:39:18 2024

    wouldn't be useful to Exodus for example)

    Yeah! I'm included! <G> hahahha

    Yeah, you are right ... a Win32 door is what is probably needed, as NetFOSS allows Win32 doors to run in DOS with NFU, so it might be the way to go.

    ... Let him who understands reckon the number of the Beast.

    --- Renegade v1.35à/DOS
    * Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)
  • From Tiny@21:1/162 to Akacastor on Wed Jun 26 06:13:12 2024
    AKAcastor was heard saying....

    I guess the server would make sense to have a simple REST API and the clients could send HTTP GET to retrieve the lists. Should be pretty straightforward to implement on both ends.

    That's how they did it. I still have the code to my door end of it, it
    wasn't difficult to get the info.

    via whatever scripting the sysop chooses, or an external door (DOS?
    Win32? OS/2?) could be created. (at least this door wouldn't need
    access to message bases)

    Exactly. I wrote one for DOS that used curl or something to do the
    internet bit.



    Shawn

    --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to AKAcastor on Tue Jun 25 17:28:50 2024
    Re: food fite
    By: AKAcastor to Tiny on Tue Jun 25 2024 10:43 am

    Something I feel like always needs to be asked, because it supports everything - does Synchronet already support something like this? I think they do have a oneliner system at least. Is there any kind of standard to implement for this, before reinventing the wheel?

    There's this:
    https://gitlab.synchro.net/main/sbbs/-/tree/master/xtrn/oneliners

    It uses JSON over TCP for shared database stuff.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #46:
    "Not an Exit" - we don't want an exit. Well that's true.
    Norco, CA WX: 88.2øF, 32.0% humidity, 6 mph WNW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)
  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to fusion on Sat Jun 29 21:50:16 2024
    Re: Re: food fite
    By: fusion to AKAcastor on Tue Jun 25 2024 03:54 pm

    Maybe if the DOS door used named pipes to talk to a proper 32-bit locally-run server that then talked to the MRC server?

    DOS programs don't support named pipes.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #42:
    What day the Lord created Spinal Tap and couldn't he have rested on that day? Norco, CA WX: 71.4øF, 66.0% humidity, 2 mph WNW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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  • From fusion@21:1/616 to Digital Man on Mon Jul 1 00:31:10 2024
    On 29 Jun 2024, Digital Man said the following...

    Maybe if the DOS door used named pipes to talk to a proper 32-bit locally-run server that then talked to the MRC server?

    DOS programs don't support named pipes.

    indeed they do. i can open and read from for example

    \\.\pipe\something

    from a dos pascal program and from what i've tested at least int21/5F35h (DosPeekNmPipe) and 5F33h (DosQNmPHandleState) seem to work to query pipe status

    http://www.ctyme.com/intr/int-21.htm

    On Windows 7 32-bit. OS/2 works too, but differenly.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
  • From AKAcastor@21:1/162 to Digital Man on Wed Jul 3 17:20:12 2024
    everything - does Synchronet already support
    something like this? I think
    they do have a oneliner system at least. Is there
    any kind of standard to
    implement for this, before reinventing the wheel?

    There's this: https://gitlab.synchro.net/main/sbbs/-/tree/master/xtrn/oneliners

    It uses JSON over TCP for shared database stuff.

    Thanks for the link! Eventually I'll learn to check the Synchronet wiki before asking, since the answers are almost always there already. It's a great resource that is appreciated!


    Chris/akacastor


    --- Maximus 3.01
    * Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)
  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to fusion on Wed Jul 3 17:46:41 2024
    Re: Re: food fite
    By: fusion to Digital Man on Mon Jul 01 2024 12:31 am

    On 29 Jun 2024, Digital Man said the following...

    Maybe if the DOS door used named pipes to talk to a proper 32-bit locally-run server that then talked to the MRC server?

    DOS programs don't support named pipes.

    indeed they do. i can open and read from for example

    \\.\pipe\something

    from a dos pascal program and from what i've tested at least int21/5F35h (DosPeekNmPipe) and 5F33h (DosQNmPHandleState) seem to work to query pipe status

    http://www.ctyme.com/intr/int-21.htm

    On Windows 7 32-bit. OS/2 works too, but differenly.

    Well, I'll be, I wouldn't expect that DOS, being a single-tasking OS, to support inter-process communication.

    <grabs his MS-DOS programmers guide>

    Nope, those pipe functions are *not* present in the supported functions of MS-DOS v4.

    And indeed, from your linked reference:
    "This function was introduced by LAN Manager but is also supported by the Novell DOS Named Pipe Extender, Banyan VINES, OS/2 Virtual DOS Machines, and others" not [MS/PC]-DOS.

    Just because it works in Windows DOS mode, doesn't mean it's supported by DOS. --
    digital man (rob)

    Steven Wright quote #20:
    If Barbie is so popu, why do you have to buy her friends?
    Norco, CA WX: 91.5øF, 28.0% humidity, 16 mph W wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)
  • From fusion@21:1/616 to Digital Man on Fri Jul 5 03:56:46 2024
    On 03 Jul 2024, Digital Man said the following...
    Nope, those pipe functions are *not* present in the supported functions
    of MS-DOS v4.

    And indeed, from your linked reference:
    "This function was introduced by LAN Manager but is also supported by the Novell DOS Named Pipe Extender, Banyan VINES, OS/2 Virtual DOS Machines, and others" not [MS/PC]-DOS.

    Yes, so are you mad I didn't preface that with "You could install LAN Manager Client for DOS, Novell network support and use DOSNP.EXE or run inside a VDM using named pipes" ?

    First paragraph of https://helparchive.huntertur.net/document/61238 :

    "The Communications Server MS-DOS and OS/2 clients use named
    pipe connections to communicate with OS/2-based Communications Server computers."

    A problem someone was having with named pipes in MS-DOS with DOS LAN Manager

    https://library.thedatadungeon.com/msdn-1992-09/kbase/html/kbas5c4h.htm

    And a problem using named pipes with Windows 3.11 (interesting symptom for a DOS machine to have)

    https://jeffpar.github.io/kbarchive/kb/119/Q119106/

    And the manual for MS SQL states the DOS client support uses named pipes too, using a TSR like the Novell one does. I can't find the link anymore but I'm guessing that's why they added those functions to the NTVDM in the first
    place (they mentioned it was for DOS Point-of-Sale software).

    .. and in any case, you said "DOS programs" don't support named pipes. If you want to say that it isn't technically a DOS program if it uses interrupts
    that aren't supported on a plain install of MS-DOS 4, well, sure:

    <grabs his MS-DOS programmers guide>

    Nope, those pipe functions are *not* present in the supported functions
    of MS-DOS v4.

    MS-DOS 4 also didn't come with DPMI support. It didn't exist yet.. are those DOS programs or nah? :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to fusion on Wed Jul 10 19:33:48 2024
    Re: Re: food fite
    By: fusion to Digital Man on Fri Jul 05 2024 03:56 am

    Yes, so are you mad I didn't preface that with "You could install LAN Manager Client for DOS, Novell network support and use DOSNP.EXE or run inside a VDM using named pipes" ?

    Mad? Not at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Sling Blade quote #12:
    Karl (re hammer): I don't rightly know. I just kinda woke up holding it.
    Norco, CA WX: 86.9øF, 47.0% humidity, 5 mph WNW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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