AIX, HP-UX, macOS, Xinuos, z/OS (see "Single UNIX Specification", wikipedia)

since i suspect there aren't users of 4 of those on dovenet (the most likely being perhaps AIX), might i suggest this echo be used only for macOS?

I was a professional user of z/OS until recently. ;) I used several
console utilities that "sat on top of" it, but I only got down to using
things from the *nix command line once or twice.


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Dumas Walker wrote to FUSION <=-

I was a professional user of z/OS until recently. ;) I used several console utilities that "sat on top of" it, but I only got down to using things from the *nix command line once or twice.

That list reminded me of some of the "weird" UNIXes out there, like
Primos - it ran on top of PRIME/OS on big CDC iron. That was the
closest my college came to UNIX, it was great for teaching shell
scripts and BASH to tons of college students, but you couldn't develop
on it.

This was the late '80s. After the weed-out CS classes and a class in
assembler on a VAX 11/750, we did all of our compiling on our own PCs.
Most people used Turbo C, but I was the oddball (go figure?), I had a
deal from the bookstore on Microsoft QuickC, but ended up using EMACS
as an IDE with Mark Williams C, with a BASH shell and *nix* commands
for DOS.



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That list reminded me of some of the "weird" UNIXes out there, like
Primos - it ran on top of PRIME/OS on big CDC iron. That was the
closest my college came to UNIX, it was great for teaching shell
scripts and BASH to tons of college students, but you couldn't develop
on it.

I did not realize they had UNIX layers on mainframes back then, but it
makes sense to do so.

This was the late '80s. After the weed-out CS classes and a class in
assembler on a VAX 11/750, we did all of our compiling on our own PCs.
Most people used Turbo C, but I was the oddball (go figure?), I had a
deal from the bookstore on Microsoft QuickC, but ended up using EMACS
as an IDE with Mark Williams C, with a BASH shell and *nix* commands
for DOS.

I used a VAX during college, but more as a "user" and didn't learn much, if anything, about the underlying OS commands or shell. The programming
classes I took were both PC-based... BASIC and PASCAL. The languages that
had more practical application... Assembler, FORTRAN, COBOL... were
reserved for students in the engineering school.

I also didn't realize they had BASH shells and *nix commands for DOS back
then.

Luckily, there were a few places in the 1990s where one could get a job
with a related degree and then get OTJ training. That is where I learned
most of what I know and used professionally.


* SLMR 2.1a * "And there she was, like double-cherry pie..."
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Re: What is UNIX? (was: Hot T
By: Dumas Walker to FUSION on Fri Oct 03 2025 10:17 am

I was a professional user of z/OS until recently. ;) I used several

What's that run on?

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Re: Re: What is UNIX? (was: H
By: Dumas Walker to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun Oct 05 2025 09:36 am

I used a VAX during college, but more as a "user" and didn't learn much, if anything, about the underlying OS commands or shell. The programming

Do you remember if they ran VMS or Ultrix?

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I was a professional user of z/OS until recently. ;) I used several

What's that run on?

IBM Mainframe.


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I used a VAX during college, but more as a "user" and didn't learn much, if
anything, about the underlying OS commands or shell. The programming

Do you remember if they ran VMS or Ultrix?

Pretty sure it was VMS. This would have been 1988-92, if that helps.


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Re: What is UNIX? (was: Hot T
By: Dumas Walker to PHIGAN on Mon Oct 06 2025 11:06 am

I was a professional user of z/OS until recently. ;) I used several

What's that run on?

IBM Mainframe.

Like IA-64 stuff?

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Re: Re: What is UNIX? (was: H
By: Dumas Walker to PHIGAN on Mon Oct 06 2025 11:06 am

Pretty sure it was VMS. This would have been 1988-92, if that helps.

VMS was weird to me. The FS has 8.3 style all-caps filenames and reminded me of DOS and later CP/M when I saw that ;).

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Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

I also didn't realize they had BASH shells and *nix commands for DOS
back then.

They were pretty limited; the shells were more for making people feel
comfortable that used shells elsewhere, I don't think they supported
scripting 100%. The command line utilities were the basics like tee,cat
diff, grep, tail, ls...

Luckily, there were a few places in the 1990s where one could get a job with a related degree and then get OTJ training. That is where I
learned most of what I know and used professionally.

My first "real" IT job, I was hired to do billing reconciliation of
call accounting records - basically all Excel. I somehow was then
allowed to do moves, adds and changes on the phone system, then
managing a Novell network and a dial-up wide area network very similar
to Fidonet. I learned all I needed from books and playing around with
spare equipment (and a supportive mentor).




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phigan wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

Do you remember if they ran VMS or Ultrix?

For me, it was VMS. Nice OS. I've seen some freeVMS sites out there,
been tempted to sign up for an account.



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I read an article on lwn.net, trying to find it now, titled "What is
UNIX". I can't find it now, will post the URL when I see it.

What I'd forgotten about was the notion that "everything is a file".
That made building complex operations out of simple applications in
scripting languages possible.

I loved the notion of running a tar command through gzip and redirecting
the output to /dev/tape. So simple, so abstract.



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Re: Re: What is UNIX? (was: H
By: poindexter FORTRAN to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Oct 07 2025 01:18 pm

I read an article on lwn.net, trying to find it now, titled "What is UNIX". can't find it now, will post the URL when I see it.

Found it -
Ghosts of UNIX Past: a historical search for design patterns.

https://lwn.net/Articles/411845/

The article, The UNIX Time-Sharing System* is gone, but available from the internet archive at

https://web.archive.org/web/20130202101342/http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dm r/cacm.html

...Change ambiguities to specifics

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Re: Re: What is UNIX? (was: H
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dumas Walker on Mon Oct 06 2025 10:42 am

scripting 100%. The command line utilities were the basics like tee,cat
diff, grep, tail, ls...

Those alone are invaluable in DOS. Man, grep is soooo much better than find.

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Re: Re: What is UNIX? (was: H
By: poindexter FORTRAN to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Oct 07 2025 01:18 pm

I loved the notion of running a tar command through gzip and redirecting
the output to /dev/tape. So simple, so abstract.

Or netcat!

And when on SunOS, cat some_song.au > /dev/audio
Before mp3s ;)

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phigan wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

VMS was weird to me. The FS has 8.3 style all-caps filenames and
reminded me of DOS and later CP/M when I saw that ;).

I ran command-line UNIXes back then, mostly BSD/OS. We got our first
windowed UNIX, Univel UNIXWare. I installed it, then was dissapointed in
the UI. It ran Motif, and looked just like the GeoWorks I ran on my
386SX at home!

My boss at the time thought it was the coolest thing because UNIXWare
was a product from a division of Novell, and it could talk to Netware
servers, file shares and use Netware user info.

So, what did we do with it? Put it outside of our firewall and have it
act as a mail and FTP bastion host, where it couldn't talk to our
Netware network... :(



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I was a professional user of z/OS until recently. ;) I used several

What's that run on?

IBM Mainframe.

Like IA-64 stuff?

No, like a mainframe computer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z/OS


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Pretty sure it was VMS. This would have been 1988-92, if that helps.

VMS was weird to me. The FS has 8.3 style all-caps filenames and reminded me o
DOS and later CP/M when I saw that ;).

Since my only computer exposure, pre-VMS, was with DOS PCs (*), it didn't seem too weird at the time. ;)

(*) and, before that, with TI-99s and Commodore 64s, which were completely different! :D


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Luckily, there were a few places in the 1990s where one could get a job with a related degree and then get OTJ training. That is where I learned most of what I know and used professionally.

My first "real" IT job, I was hired to do billing reconciliation of
call accounting records - basically all Excel. I somehow was then
allowed to do moves, adds and changes on the phone system, then
managing a Novell network and a dial-up wide area network very similar
to Fidonet. I learned all I needed from books and playing around with
spare equipment (and a supportive mentor).

"Those were the days..." ;)


* SLMR 2.1a * "Stamp Collection?? Ha-Ha!" - Nelson
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Re: Re: What is UNIX? (was: H
By: phigan to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Oct 08 2025 06:48 am

Howdy,

Those alone are invaluable in DOS. Man, grep is soooo much better than find.

And for what it's worth, "ag" is so much faster than grep :)


...ëîåï

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Re: What is UNIX? (was: Hot T
By: Dumas Walker to PHIGAN on Wed Oct 08 2025 08:46 am

IBM Mainframe.

Like IA-64 stuff?

No, like a mainframe computer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcywf9mwF5U

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Re: Re: What is UNIX? (was: H
By: phigan to Dumas Walker on Tue Oct 07 2025 09:55 am

VMS was weird to me. The FS has 8.3 style all-caps filenames and reminded me of DOS and later CP/M when I saw that ;).

I thought DOS's filesystem was basically case-insensitive, and it just happened that most utilities displayed the filenames in uppercase.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: What is UNIX? (was: H
By: phigan to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Oct 08 2025 06:48 am

scripting 100%. The command line utilities were the basics like tee,cat
diff, grep, tail, ls...

Those alone are invaluable in DOS. Man, grep is soooo much better than find.

Are those tools actually available for DOS? I've seen them available for the Windows command line; I use grep at the Windows command line fairly regularly.

Nightfox

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Nightfox wrote to phigan <=-

Are those tools actually available for DOS? I've seen them available
for the Windows command line; I use grep at the Windows command line fairly regularly.

Yes, GNU makes those utilities for DOS. Mark Williams C compiler had a
whole kit back in the late 90s with a BASH shell so you could make your
DOS box act like a UNIX box for coding, even with vi and emacs for DOS.




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