Why do some movies take so long to convert from HD to 4K?
Re: HD vs 4K
By: The Millionaire to All on Thu Mar 18 2021 08:42 pm
Are you referring to any specific software and machine being used? That depends widely on both factors, as well as the method of upscaling it (such as using AI or a more simple method). More information may be helpful in answering your question.
I've used Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI, which can use either a CPU or a graphics card. A dedicated graphics card is much faster, though it still takes quite a while. From what I've seen, the size of the source image seems to be one of the biggest factors in the upscale time. And it seems just the process of using AI to recognize the image and fill in details takes time. I don't know enough about it to give more information.
Nightfox
---
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The Millionaire wrote to All <=-
Why do some movies take so long to convert from HD to 4K?
Are you referring to any specific software and machine being used? That depends widely on both factors, as well as the method of upscaling it (such using AI or a more simple method). More information may be helpful in answering your question.
I'm talking about movies in general here.
I'm talking about movies in general here.
probably just having to clean and inspect almost every frame of the film, sc with a higher resolution (= slower) scanner, fix color, etc. luckily film quality is usually quite nice and using a modern scanner can get that much more data.
I'm talking about movies in general here.
I venture to say he means movies in general. "Why are they taking so long to release my favourite movie in 4k?"
probably just having to clean and inspect almost every frame of the film, scan with a higher resolution (= slower) scanner, fix color, etc. luckily film quality is usually quite nice and using a modern scanner can get that much more data.
Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.
I'm still waiting for a high-def release of The Abyss. I don't think
that has officially even been released on 1080p yet (though I'm not
Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.
i've already had plenty of occasions where this or that movie that i randomly think of is not on any of the streaming sites. or is behind a premium hbo/starz/etc paywall. or have made it half way through a show only to find out i only have a month to finish because it's going offline.
You know, I once heard that if you had well preserved master films in 25mm, those still beat modern digital recordings (even films from the 1920s) and benefit when upgraded from mpeg 4 to an HD capable format.
Re: Re: HD vs 4K
By: fusion to Nightfox on Fri Mar 19 2021 06:52 pm
Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.
i've already had plenty of occasions where this or that movie that i randomly think of is n
on any of the streaming sites. or is behind a premium hbo/starz/etc paywall. or have made i
half way through a show only to find out i only have a month to finish because it's going
offline.
That's part of the problem. Also (not as often), sometimes streaming services can be unavailabl
due to high traffic or other problems, or sometimes your internet service might go down.
In a way, relying on streaming services for everything seems like relying on over-the-air
broadcasts. You have to wait for something to become available, and then as you said, it can be
taken away later. I always thought that's one of the reasons they started producing movies & TV
shows that people could buy and own. Now, it seems many people are content with relying on
streaming services for the things they want to watch.
Nightfox
Nightfox wrote to The Millionaire <=-
Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.
30 years ago it made sense to own _that_ special movie you wanted in VHS, because there weren't so many TV channels providing quality films and shows in an abundant way. Nowadays, if _that_ film is not available, you are bound to find three hundred to substitute it at no cost (or close).
There is no specific reason to own your own copy of things because their value has gone under, unless you are a hardcore like me and want to reduce your dependence on content providers.
30 years ago it made sense to own _that_ special movie you wanted in VH because there weren't so many TV channels providing quality films and shows in an abundant way. Nowadays, if _that_ film is not available, yo are bound to find three hundred to substitute it at no cost (or close).
If you want to watch a particular movie, I don't think anything else can substitute for it. You could choose another movie to watch, but it won't be the one you originally wanted to watch..
Why do some movies take so long to convert from HD to 4K?
I've used Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI, which can use either a CPU or
a graphics card. A dedicated graphics card is much faster, though
it still takes quite a while. From what I've seen, the size of the
source image seems to be one of the biggest factors in the upscale
time. And it seems just the process of using AI to recognize the
image and fill in details takes time. I don't know enough about it
to give more information.
I'm talking about movies in general here.
probably just having to clean and inspect almost every frame of
the film, scan with a higher resolution (= slower) scanner, fix
color, etc. luckily film quality is usually quite nice and using
a modern scanner can get that much more data.
You know, I once heard that if you had well preserved master films
in 25mm, those still beat modern digital recordings (even films
from the 1920s) and benefit when upgraded from mpeg 4 to an HD
capable format.
I venture to say he means movies in general. "Why are they taking
so long to release my favourite movie in 4k?"
I've been doing some video upscaling lately, so I guess that's why
I interpreted his question that way.
probably just having to clean and inspect almost every frame of
the film, scan with a higher resolution (= slower) scanner, fix
color, etc. luckily film quality is usually quite nice and using
a modern scanner can get that much more data.
They've done that with many movies for the transitions from VHS to
DVD, then to 1080p blu-ray, etc.. It does seem like it has taken
longer to remaster some movies to 4K though.
I'm still waiting for a high-def release of The Abyss. I don't
think that has officially even been released on 1080p yet (though
I'm not sure).
On 19 Mar 2021, Nightfox said the following...
Ni> Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.
i've already had plenty of occasions where this or that movie that i randomly think of is not on any of the streaming sites. or is behind
a premium hbo/starz/etc paywall. or have made it half way through a
show only to find out i only have a month to finish because it's going offline.
it seems to be the total opposite of the premium music services where
your initial buy in gets you pretty much every album ever made
regardless of if it's itunes, amazon, spotify or whoever
I always thought that's one of the reasons they started producing
movies & TV shows that people could buy and own. Now, it seems
many people are content with relying on streaming services for the
things they want to watch.
Personally, I still sometimes like to buy movies to own.
I like to own them so that I can watch them when I want - without
worrying about them being romoved from the streaming service and
put in some imaginary "vault" or having them removed entirely
because some group is offended by the content of a movie that was
released in a different time, to a different generation. Yeah, I just
want to make sure I can always watch my movies when I want. :-)\
if the film they want to watch is not there, they will watch
something else without breaking a sweat in the least.
Why do some movies take so long to convert from HD to 4K?
30 years ago it made sense to own _that_ special movie you wanted in VHS, >Ar> because there weren't so many TV channels providing quality films and
shows in an abundant way. Nowadays, if _that_ film is not available, you >Ar> are bound to find three hundred to substitute it at no cost (or close).
If you want to watch a particular movie, I don't think anything else can subst
tute for it. You could choose another movie to watch, but it won't be the one >ou originally wanted to watch..
I also don't want to fully depend on content providers.
I've used Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI, which can use either a CPU or
I got a beta version after they added newer Radeon support, but ironically the main thing I wanted to upscale (Babylon 5) was already done by HBO/Warner.
Some of the tests I've seen are really good, but to do a proper production, every 2-4s clip would need to be cut, processed with
multiple options, the best one chosen manually and re-stitched for the final output for commercial redistribution. Other than some of the Star Wars despecialized edition type projects, I don't know of any
independent efforts nearly to that scale. Would be cool to see more though. I don't think I could handle that kind of work though... seeing the same clip 5-10 times and picking the best one, over and over and
over again.
I think TM was probably just referring to getting a 4K release of existing HD material.
Or, like more recent examples retroactively declared "insensitive" and censored/removed from online availability altogether. Not that I really want to watch some of the censored films, but can see why some might
want to.
for a few streaming services (mostly out of guilt), but prefer to rip my own content from disk, or otherwise download. It would probably be less expensive to just stream all the things, but in the end, I like the control and life without commercial interruptions.
the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).
Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-
mp4 is a container format, often h.264 aka AVC for 1080p or lower for video. 4K is still mp4 as the container format but h.265 aka HEVC for
the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).
Tracker1 wrote to Nightfox <=-
Sometimes it comes down to licensing, especially music, "The Wonder
Years" was particularly hard to even get licensing as there was audio source without the music mixed in, and some of the licensing was complicated to say the least. "Daria" an example of where some of the original music was changed for licensing.
Tracker1 wrote to Linuxdan <=-
Or, like more recent examples retroactively declared "insensitive" and censored/removed from online availability altogether. Not that I
really want to watch some of the censored films, but can see why some might want to.
Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-
LOL, that's when I put it in a note on my phone and download it later,
or go upstairs for 2-3m and do it right then.
Arelor wrote to Tracker1 <=-
of license reasons. The developpers bought a license for selling the soundtracks for X years, and once the license expired, they removed the music from your game.
This does not happen with MS-DOS games.
I'm a newbie at all of this, but noticed that my 4K Roku TV doesn't support h.265 encoded video, only h.264. I have to be careful what I try to play on it.
Yeah, it would be a lot of work. I've upscaled some content,
with some looking better than others. I still think it doesn't
look as good as > it could be. Upscaling software looks
promising, but I think it still has a ways to go.
?? some might want to.Or, like more recent examples retroactively declared "insensitive"
and censored/removed from online availability altogether. Not that
I really want to watch some of the censored films, but can see why
For me, this is the big reason why I want my media store locally.
With a DRM-loaded pseudorental (known as streaming) you only get to
access the content as long as the provider has a license to lend it
to you, or as long as it decides.
I have been told some steam games have lost their soundtracks
because of license reasons. The developpers bought a license for
selling the soundtracks for X years, and once the license expired,
they removed the music from your game.
This does not happen with MS-DOS games.
for a few streaming services (mostly out of guilt), but prefer to
rip my own content from disk, or otherwise download. It would
probably be less expensive to just stream all the things, but in
the end, I like the control and life without commercial
interruptions.
I'll watch movies I've seen 10 times just to avoid commericial
interuptions. I only watch the local news and then it's all netflix
for me. I never saw any value in making copies of movies. The movies
that are worth making copies of always show up one way or another
onlin or on air these days. Then there's the torrents too. ;-)
the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when
over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).
ugh no way. it doesn't turn blurry, it ends up with those swirly
patterns. it's significantly more distracting imo.
mp4 is a container format, often h.264 aka AVC for 1080p or lower for
video. 4K is still mp4 as the container format but h.265 aka HEVC for
the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when
over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).
I'm a newbie at all of this, but noticed that my 4K Roku TV doesn't
support h.265 encoded video, only h.264. I have to be careful what I
try to play on it.
Sometimes it comes down to licensing, especially music, "The Wonder
Years" was particularly hard to even get licensing as there was audio
source without the music mixed in, and some of the licensing was
complicated to say the least. "Daria" an example of where some of the
original music was changed for licensing.
That was the story behind the 70's TV show "WKRP in Cincinnati". It had some amazing music from the time, albeit playing in the background and not an integral part of the show. The clearances and the cost for the music was prohibitive, apparently since it had to be negotiated/cleared song by song.
Except for one episode that had Elton John's "Tiny Dancer" as a tie-in to
the plot. They couldn't get the rights to the song and re-dubbed it into the show. Now it sounds more like "Hold me closer, Tony Danza".
LOL, that's when I put it in a note on my phone and download it
later, or go upstairs for 2-3m and do it right then.
Yeah. I've sat down to a movie night, realized the movie we wanted
to see was $19.99 to rent, then asked my wife to go make some
popcorn, and we'll watch the movie in 10-20 minutes. :)
I'm a newbie at all of this, but noticed that my 4K Roku TV doesn't
support h.265 encoded video, only h.264. I have to be careful what
I try to play on it.
Is it the TV itself, or is it the app you use that doesn't support h.265?
Yeah, music licensing is particularly bad... The Wonder Years was a
prime example of how bad it gets, since it was mixed into the master, they were largely blocked from online and disc based media for years.
better/faster in the next generation or two... Radeon and NVidia cards are so much faster, but the quality/size worse than CPU, I still choose CPU encodes, just takes forever... I'll sometimes have days worth of encodes queued up that would be a couple hours with hardware.
I go through similar about once a month... sometimes I'll just pay the $4-7 rental price to not deal with the hassle, but at $15+ for a 20yo movie, I'd rather just download it.
Most of what I'm up for ripping myself is stuff that I cannot get in higher definition anyway, or otherwise is unavailable in torrents. I do buy some things because I want to support certain actions, and money talks, even if mine is a drop in the bucket.
Likely a lack of hardware decoding on chip... when 4k streaming devices first came out, h.265 was still really new and a lot of chips on those devices didn't have hardware decoders (and they're all too slow for software decoding). For those things, if you have a desktop/server online, best to setup a plex server.
Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Is it the TV itself, or is it the app you use that doesn't support
h.265?
Tracker1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Weird.. if you have a desktop or server that's always on, may be worth setting up a plex server that can transcode to h264 for you... this way you can still store in the smaller (size wise) format.
Tracker1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
That's another one... didn't really get into that show when I was
younger, should go back and watch it.
That was the story behind the 70's TV show "WKRP in Cincinnati". It had some amazing music from the time, albeit playing in the background and not an integral part of the show. The clearances and the cost for the music was prohibitive, apparently since it had to be negotiated/cleared song by song.
Except for one episode that had Elton John's "Tiny Dancer" as a tie-in to
the plot. They couldn't get the rights to the song and re-dubbed it into the show. Now it sounds more like "Hold me closer, Tony Danza".
Now I know who to contact with my ripping questions. I
recently purchased an external DVD r+w and made a few
copies for a friend. One of the copies crapped out a 23
mins. What causes this? Bad disk?
Weird.. if you have a desktop or server that's always on, may be worth setting up a plex server that can transcode to h264 for you... this way you can still store in the smaller (size wise) format.
I go through similar about once a month... sometimes I'll just pay the $4-7 rental price to not deal with the hassle, but at $15+ for a 20yo movie, I'd rather just download it.
i paid for the movie "Water World" on dvd because nobody had ripped it at the time (at least that i could find. it was a long long time ago. it's NOT a wildly popular movie by any stretch lol).
nowadays even hot garbage is fairly easy to find with a handful of seeders.
mp4 is a container format, often h.264 aka AVC for 1080p or lower for video. 4K is still mp4 as the container format but h.265 aka HEVC for the encoding. HEVC has a better, imho, rendering degradation when over-compressed (blurry vs blocky).
I'm a newbie at all of this, but noticed that my 4K Roku TV doesn't support h.265 encoded video, only h.264. I have to be careful what I try to play on it.
better/faster in the next generation or two... Radeon and NVidia
cards are so much faster, but the quality/size worse than CPU, I
still choose CPU encodes, just takes forever... I'll sometimes
have days worth of encodes queued up that would be a couple hours
with hardware.
that isn't the use case they intended for those cards.. they're
great for live streaming.. but i duno why video editing software
likes to default to using them.. :/
Most of what I'm up for ripping myself is stuff that I cannot get in
higher definition anyway, or otherwise is unavailable in torrents. I do
buy some things because I want to support certain actions, and money
talks, even if mine is a drop in the bucket.
Now I know who to contact with my ripping questions. I recently
purchased an external DVD r+w and made a few copies for a friend.
One of the copies crapped out a 23 mins. What causes this? Bad disk?
Likely a lack of hardware decoding on chip... when 4k streaming
devices first came out, h.265 was still really new and a lot of
chips on those devices didn't have hardware decoders (and they're
all too slow for software decoding). For those things, if you have
a desktop/server online, best to setup a plex server.
Yeah, I have a Plex server at home. I had one TV that seemed to
have trouble with h.265 even through the Plex app, but another TV
where h.265 seemed to play without any problems.
Not sure... I've had issues with a couple disks here and there, likely
an error that may not show up on a real BR player. I have bought AnyDVD
HD as well as MakeMKV usually one or the other, I can get a clean rip to
my HD.
Will usually then re-encode with Handbrake using mkv container and
h.265, if the original audio isn't too big, I'll leave it as-is, or recompress to 64kbps per channel aac.
I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for
DVD players andmay not play on PC drives." As advertised,
I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on
a DVD player (an XBOX).
I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for DVD players and may not play on PC drives." As advertised, I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on a DVD player (an XBOX).
Hello Dumas!
** On Thursday 25.03.21 - 15:40, Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1:
I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for
DVD players andmay not play on PC drives." As advertised,
I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on
a DVD player (an XBOX).
That is an interesting reversal. I always thought that and PC's
DVD player could do anything. What is this "set" that you
bought?
I am not a media expert, but some DVDs employ obscure
features as to make it harder for desktop software to
support it.
For example, Disney DVDs have the chapters stored in a
scrambled order, so if you rip the DVD straight ahead or
play it directly you won't get to watch the movie properly.
Which is yet another reason not to purchase a Disney product.
** On Thursday 25.03.21 - 15:40, Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1:
I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for
DVD players andmay not play on PC drives." As advertised,
I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on
a DVD player (an XBOX).
That is an interesting reversal. I always thought that and PC's
DVD player could do anything. What is this "set" that you
bought?
Weird.. if you have a desktop or server that's always on, may be
worth setting up a plex server that can transcode to h264 for you...
this way you can still store in the smaller (size wise) format.
A while ago, I bought the Lifetime Pass for Plex when it was on sale.
I read one of the features of Plex Pass is that it can make use of a
GPU for transcoding. My BBS/Plex PC is using the Intel graphics on
the CPU, and I've thought of buying an inexpensive GPU for it so it
can transcode easier. But currently my only TV now can play h.265, so
it hasn't been a problem.
At the same time, I wondered why they don't implement h.265 decoding
in the Plex player app. I thought smart TVs these days would
generally have a processor fast enough to decode even that video
codec, but maybe not.
I recently bought a DVD set that says that it is "made for
DVD players andmay not play on PC drives." As advertised,
I am not able to watch, or rip, that one except watching on
a DVD player (an XBOX).
That is an interesting reversal. I always thought that and PC's
DVD player could do anything. What is this "set" that you
bought?
I wonder how that works. I know DVDs have copy protection, but anything that i
capable of playing a DVD (including a PC with a DVD drive and compatible softw
re) should be able to at least play it. I haven't had a DVD that I was unable >o play in a PC.
There's software that can rip a DVD, even with copy protection. I heard DVD co
y protection was cracked fairly soon. I've been able to rip any of my DVDs usi
g DVD Shrink (which makes ISOs of DVDs, and can either shrink it to a 4.7GB DVD
R or keep it full-size for a 9.4GB DVD-R). There's a lot of other ripping soft
are that can rip it to a video file too.
I am guessing that Duma's set is BluRay? Maybe the BluRay spec
can be manipulated like that.
Yeah, most Integrated SOCs have a dedicated processing for media decoding, if they don't usually not powerful enough.
That is an interesting reversal. I always thought that and PC's
DVD player could do anything. What is this "set" that you
bought?
Likely a DRM scheme that abuses standards for how tracks are laid out or something similar that manifests on PC players/rippers but not actual hardware... would be surprised if AnyDVD and MakeMKV don't have it circumvented.
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