Do you think it was worthwhile to remaster vinyl once again?

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The Millionaire wrote to All <=-

Do you think it was worthwhile to remaster vinyl once again?

This question cannot be answered. There are numerous reasons why
it can't, but in the interest of decency, I won't say why.

Please try to come up with better questions that actually make
sense and have some resemblance to the English language.


... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Re: Vinyl
By: The Millionaire to All on Tue Oct 01 2019 06:53 pm

Do you think it was worthwhile to remaster vinyl once again?

Would it be easier to capture the audio on a different format, edit and clean it up, then produce new pressing dies than attempt to retrieve a casting of grooves from a vinyl disc?

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The Millionaire wrote to All <=-

Do you think it was worthwhile to remaster vinyl once again?

was or is?

personally, yes, i think vinyl could be remastered and be somewhat better than it was because the technology has advanced so much... as long as they don't compress the frequencies to shove so much more in causing it to sound louder... if the original masters are still available and able to be properly read, it could be a GoodThing<tm>...

)\/(ark

... Nothing is magic, just more work.
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Re: Vinyl
By: The Millionaire to All on Tue Oct 01 2019 06:53 pm

Do you think it was worthwhile to remaster vinyl once again?

I'm not a big fan of vinyl records. I don't like hearing the pops & crackles & hiss you tend to hear from them - though if you have a relatively undamaged record playing on high-quality equipment, that wouldn't be much of an issue. But then there's the issue that the inner grooves don't sound as good as the outer grooves because the inner grooves are shorter and thus can't reproduce the same high frequencies that the outer grooves can.

Also, newer storage mediums such as CDs allow for longer-length albums than vinyl can.

I thnk a lot of new music is recorded & mastered digitally, too. So if they go from a digital master to a vinyl record, I'd think the argument of vinyl sounding better than digital goes out the window. I tend to think digital formats have the capacity to sound better than vinyl anyway..

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: The Millionaire to All on Tue Oct 01 2019 18:53:58

Do you think it was worthwhile to remaster vinyl once again?

Only if something happened to the original remasters and they were lost.

-Dallas Vinson
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I recently got a USB turntable so I could start converting all my old albums over to digital while they are still playable, and even then some of them have gotten so badly scratched over the decades that I'm going to lose several tracks from each of those albums. While I love the warmth that you get from the sound of vinyl, it is a very short lived medium as the more times it gets played the worse those groves become.

-Dallas Vinson
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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to All on Thu Oct 03 2019 01:53 am

I recently got a USB turntable so I could start converting all my old albums over to digital while they are still playable, and even then some of them have gotten so badly scratched over the decades that I'm going to lose several tracks from each of those albums. While I love the warmth that you get from the sound of vinyl, it is a very short lived medium as the more times it gets played the worse those groves become.
-Dallas Vinson

You know, I am also digitizing my VHS collection because of similar reasons. The VHS format didn't have the benefit of looking good to begin with, though.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Arelor to Lupine Furmen on Thu Oct 03 2019 07:11 am

Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to All on Thu Oct 03 2019 01:53 am

I recently got a USB turntable so I could start converting all my old albums over to digital while they are still playable, and even then some of them have gotten so badly scratched over the decades that I'm going to lose several tracks from each of those albums. While I love the warmth that you get from the sound of vinyl, it is a very short lived medium as the more times it gets played the worse those groves become.
-Dallas Vinson

You know, I am also digitizing my VHS collection because of similar reasons. The VHS format didn't have the benefit of looking good to begin with, though.

I've been doing that this year too. Some of my home video camera tapes still look considerably better than the de-interlaced digitally captured files however. :-(

digital man

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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to All on Thu Oct 03 2019 01:53 am

I recently got a USB turntable so I could start converting all my old albums over to digital while they are still playable, and even then some of them have gotten so badly scratched over the decades that I'm going to lose several tracks from each of those albums. While I love the warmth that you get from the sound of vinyl, it is a very short lived medium as the more times it gets played the worse those groves become.

I've seen a laser turntable for vinyl that plays records using a laser so it doesn't physically wear out the records:
http://elpj.com

However, those are very expensive..

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to All on Thu Oct 03 2019 01:53 am

I recently got a USB turntable so I could start converting all my old albums over to digital while they are still playable, and even then some of them

Nice! I really should look into getting one of those. Which one did you get?

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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Lupine Furmen on Thu Oct 03 2019 09:49 am

Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to All on Thu Oct 03 2019 01:53 am

I recently got a USB turntable so I could start converting all my old albums over to digital while they are still playable, and even then som of them have gotten so badly scratched over the decades that I'm going lose several tracks from each of those albums. While I love the warmth that you get from the sound of vinyl, it is a very short lived medium a the more times it gets played the worse those groves become.

I've seen a laser turntable for vinyl that plays records using a laser so it doesn't physically wear out the records:
http://elpj.com

However, those are very expensive..

$15K ouch! Yeah, that won't fly with the wife.

---
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Re: Vinyl
By: Arelor to Lupine Furmen on Thu Oct 03 2019 07:11 am

I recently got a USB turntable so I could start converting all my old
albums over to digital while they are still playable, and even then

You know, I am also digitizing my VHS collection because of similar reasons. The VHS format didn't have the benefit of looking good to begin with, though.

A couple years ago, I bought a USB cassette deck so I could digitize some old cassettes I have, which are somewhat rare and not available on CD. The cassettes are old synthesizer music contest winner tapes from Roland (synthesizer company). Roland used to release those in the late 70s to early 80s. I've had their 8th contest tape for a long time, and I found the 6th & 7th on eBay. I've been looking to see if I can collect the others too. I'd like to find another copy of the 8th contest tape, since I lost the cassette sleeve for mine a long time ago, and I no longer have the artist/song names. I was able to find a few of them online, but information on Roland's synthesizer contest tapes (and the tapes themselves) are fairly hard to find.

I have an eBay search alert set up for Roland's synthesizer contest tapes (which is how I found the 6th & 7th), but it seems they don't come up on eBay very often.

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: Digital Man to Arelor on Thu Oct 03 2019 09:49 am

I've been doing that this year too. Some of my home video camera tapes still look considerably better than the de-interlaced digitally captured files however. :-(

I don't think you should be touching the interlacing when doing captures for archival, unless you are tight for space. I'd do the deinterlacing in playback.

But then if you are tight on space then it sense to deinterlace and use noise filters to make the output more compressible... it is just that if you are not careful you make the output look like crap.

Actually I wrote a Linux Magazine article about the subject. The equipment I used as a base for the article is like 100 USD worth so end results are ok at best if you follow it to the leter, though.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Arelor on Thu Oct 03 2019 10:51 am

A couple years ago, I bought a USB cassette deck so I could digitize some old cassettes I have, which are somewhat rare and not available on CD.

I am using a casette player I got at a pawnshop for 5 eur and a USBTV007 card I got for 14. You can guess the results are not studio grade, but I have managed to savage some recordings my parents did when they were part of a metal band in their youth.

Good luck in your search, you are going to need it.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Arelor to Digital Man on Thu Oct 03 2019 12:01 pm

Re: Vinyl
By: Digital Man to Arelor on Thu Oct 03 2019 09:49 am

I've been doing that this year too. Some of my home video camera tapes still look considerably better than the de-interlaced digitally captured files however. :-(

I don't think you should be touching the interlacing when doing captures for archival, unless you are tight for space. I'd do the deinterlacing in playback.

But then if you are tight on space then it sense to deinterlace and use noise filters to make the output more compressible... it is just that if you are not careful you make the output look like crap.

You, I didn't think much about preserving interlacing at the time of capture (using a Hauppauge HD-PVR). I'm using OBS for the capture software. I'll have to revisit their options and see what there is for preserving/saving to an interlaced file format.

Actually I wrote a Linux Magazine article about the subject. The equipment I used as a base for the article is like 100 USD worth so end results are ok at best if you follow it to the leter, though.

Awesome. I was using Windows on the capture system, but certainly could use a Linux system if the results would be better. Got a link to that article?

digital man

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Re: Vinyl
By: Digital Man to Arelor on Thu Oct 03 2019 09:49 am

I've been doing that this year too. Some of my home video camera tapes still look considerably better than the de-interlaced digitally captured files however. :-(

you can use virtualdub with some filters to clean it up possibly.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Digital Man to Arelor on Thu Oct 03 2019 12:48 pm

Awesome. I was using Windows on the capture system, but certainly could use a Linux system if the results would be better. Got a link to that article?

http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2019/219/File-Conversion

The proceedings there are very manual. The capture device just throws a stream of MPEG-1 encoded data at you and you need to handle it.

The capture device I used for the article is meh. It is good for the price, but the price is 15 bucks, so you can imagine the quality of the capture. It messes timestamps and deals very badly with errors. The GStreamer dance is there because you need to fix the mess the capture device generates.

You should experiment because it is all a bit low level, and when you go so low level it is easy to mess the results. Have fun!

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Re: Vinyl
By: Arelor to Digital Man on Thu Oct 03 2019 03:45 pm

Awesome. I was using Windows on the capture system, but certainly could use a Linux system if the results would be better. Got a link to that article?

http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2019/219/File-Conversion

By the way, the article is up for free but you can always buy the magazine. It is a good thing to have strong Linux and Open Source related publications.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Arelor to Lupine Furmen on Thu Oct 03 2019 07:11:26

You know, I am also digitizing my VHS collection because of similar reasons. The VHS format didn't have the benefit of looking good to begin with, though.

Yeah, when it came to A/V quality, Beta was certainly far supperior.


-Dallas Vinson
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---
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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Lupine Furmen on Thu Oct 03 2019 09:49:06

I've seen a laser turntable for vinyl that plays records using a laser so it doesn't physically wear out the records:
http://elpj.com

However, those are very expensive..

I can imagine. Sounds like a fairly new tech. Give it a few years and the price will start coming down. CD Players used to be pretty expensive too. Same with 3D printers, but now 3D printers are getting cheap enough that anyone can have one on their desktop.

-Dallas Vinson
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SSH: loybbs.net:23222
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Re: Vinyl
By: echto to Lupine Furmen on Thu Oct 03 2019 10:38:56

Nice! I really should look into getting one of those. Which one did you get?

ION Profile. It was given to me. I like it because it's not only USB, but it also has the regular RCA jacks so I can run it through my mixer or plug it into the main stereo in the living room.


-Dallas Vinson
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Re: Vinyl
By: Arelor to Digital Man on Thu Oct 03 2019 15:45:38

http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2019/219/File-Conversion

man, that's cool! we have a ROXIO video capture device that looks similar to your EasyCAP... it is one we grabbed up one day some years back... IIRC it was $50US at Sam's Club... it works fairly well but we've only ever used it on winwhatever... we mainly used it to capture video from a miniVHS camcorder... tried some live captures from the camera but for some reason there was some sort of audio reverb feedback thing going on so sound was kinda echoed and weird... we never found a solution for that so just stuck with taping and then capturing the playback...


)\/(ark

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Re: Re: Vinyl
By: Gamgee to The Millionaire on Wed Oct 02 2019 08:34 am

The Millionaire wrote to All <=-

Do you think it was worthwhile to remaster vinyl once again?

This question cannot be answered. There are numerous reasons why
it can't, but in the interest of decency, I won't say why.

Please try to come up with better questions that actually make
sense and have some resemblance to the English language.

... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly

What kind of a reply was this?
He asked a simple question... you could have just moved on.

And it's illegal in New York now to tell someone to speak English. You should start practicing how not to do that for risk of being prosecuted eventually.

Also the second sentence in your reply is an incomplete sentence.

Lastly, a question is not a physical thing, and therefore can not resemble something. The language in which a question is asked could resemble many languages yet be in itself, a asked in one specific language.

You would do well to brush up on 11th grade grammar and English classes before berating another's use of both.


Thanks,
Zombie Mambo

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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Arelor on Thu Oct 03 2019 07:10 pm

Re: Vinyl
By: Arelor to Lupine Furmen on Thu Oct 03 2019 07:11:26

You know, I am also digitizing my VHS collection because of similar reaso The VHS format didn't have the benefit of looking good to begin with, though.

Yeah, when it came to A/V quality, Beta was certainly far supperior.

-Dallas Vinson
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SSH: loybbs.net:23222
Before the Web - telnet: loybbs.net:23232
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Television and video procduction facilities stayed with the Beta format,
which is why Beta stayed available in the high end video market.

---
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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Nightfox on Thu Oct 03 2019 07:13 pm

I can imagine. Sounds like a fairly new tech. Give it a few years and the pr will start coming down. CD Players used to be pretty expensive too. Same wit 3D printers, but now 3D printers are getting cheap enough that anyone can ha one on their desktop.

Optical turntable technology was developed in the 1980's. Compact Disc
killed off most interest in it before the technology could become widespread enough to see a price drop. The company that bought out the technology
charges a crazy amount for their turntables, as much as $15,000USD. I would also be curious is the Maker community could reverse engineer ro develop anoth er process to translate grooves back to sound.

There is an unrelated technology that uses a camera to take detailed images
of the grooves, then software decodes the images to make sound.


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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Nightfox on Thu Oct 03 2019 07:13 pm

I've seen a laser turntable for vinyl that plays records using a laser
so it doesn't physically wear out the records:
http://elpj.com

However, those are very expensive..

I can imagine. Sounds like a fairly new tech. Give it a few years and the price will start coming down. CD Players used to be pretty expensive too. Same with 3D printers, but now 3D printers are getting cheap enough that anyone can have one on their desktop.

I'm not sure about those though. Vinyl record players is a fairly niche technology (it's an old format that was succeeded by several newer formats a long time ago). And it seems they've already been selling those for a few years and they're still fairly expensive. These days, I'm not sure enough people would be willing to buy a fancy record player for the price to come down any time soon.

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Lupine Furmen on Fri Oct 04 2019 11:10 am

There is an unrelated technology that uses a camera to take detailed images of the grooves, then software decodes the images to make sound.

That would be interesting.. Software could render audio files from that, and perhaps also do that in real time (allowing you to adjust audio settings on the fly). I'm imaginging loading a photo of a vinyl record to play an album via software.. :P

Nightfox

---
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Zombie Mambo wrote to Gamgee <=-

The Millionaire wrote to All <=-

Do you think it was worthwhile to remaster vinyl once again?

This question cannot be answered. There are numerous reasons why
it can't, but in the interest of decency, I won't say why.

Please try to come up with better questions that actually make
sense and have some resemblance to the English language.

What kind of a reply was this?
He asked a simple question... you could have just moved on.

Just like you could have... but you didn't.

<SNIP remaining uncalled-for insults and stupidity>

Run along and play in traffic.


... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Lupine Furmen on Fri Oct 04 2019 09:41 am

Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Nightfox on Thu Oct 03 2019 07:13 pm

I've seen a laser turntable for vinyl that plays records using a laser
so it doesn't physically wear out the records:
http://elpj.com

However, those are very expensive..

I can imagine. Sounds like a fairly new tech. Give it a few years and t price will start coming down. CD Players used to be pretty expensive to Same with 3D printers, but now 3D printers are getting cheap enough tha anyone can have one on their desktop.

I'm not sure about those though. Vinyl record players is a fairly niche tec y expensive. These days, I'm not sure enough people would be willing to buy

Nightfox

Economy of scale. If more were made, they would be cheaper. Even the better built systems would be cheaper.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri Oct 04 2019 09:25 pm

I'm not sure about those though. Vinyl record players is a fairly
niche tec y expensive. These days, I'm not sure enough people would
be willing to buy

Economy of scale. If more were made, they would be cheaper. Even the better built systems would be cheaper.

Yeah, but there would have to be enough demand in order for them to decide to produce them on a mass scale.

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Fri Oct 04 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri Oct 04 2019 09:25 pm

I'm not sure about those though. Vinyl record players is a fairly
niche tec y expensive. These days, I'm not sure enough people would
be willing to buy

Economy of scale. If more were made, they would be cheaper. Even the better built systems would be cheaper.

Yeah, but there would have to be enough demand in order for them to decide t

Nightfox

Indeed. Vinyl is rediscovered from time to time, and I think because it is such a fragile media known for good sound when meticulously cared for, the hipster crowd and younger musical enthusiasts are picking up their first turnt ables. Other than the maker crowd, I doubt there's many who would put the resources toward owning an optical turntable unless it was way cheaper and eas ier.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Lupine Furmen on Fri Oct 04 2019 11:10:00

also be curious is the Maker community could reverse engineer ro develop anoth er process to translate grooves back to sound.

Don't know, may need to pass that over to our local Makers group just to see what they could come up with.

And of course CD's would win out, they are smaller and less easily damaged than a vinyl album is. Of course, by that same standard, I'm surprised that mini-cd didn't dislodge CD, or the PSP CD cartridge didn't usurp all of them.


-Dallas Vinson
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---
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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Lupine Furmen on Fri Oct 04 2019 09:41:10

I'm not sure about those though. Vinyl record players is a fairly niche technology (it's an old format that was succeeded by several newer formats a long time ago). And it seems they've already been selling those for a few years and they're still fairly expensive. These days, I'm not sure enough people would be willing to buy a fancy record player for the price to come down any time soon.

Touche'


-Dallas Vinson
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SSH: loybbs.net:23222
Before the Web - telnet: loybbs.net:23232
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---
þ Synchronet þ Furmen's Folly - furmenservices.net:22

Do you think it was worthwhile to remaster vinyl once again?
---

You mean like the Beatles new remaster and put it out on vinyl again?

---
þ wcQWK 8.0

You know, I am also digitizing my VHS collection because of similar reasons. The VHS format didn't have the benefit of looking good to begin with, though.
---

Its also sad that so many old vhs tapes are going to landfills.

---
þ wcQWK 8.0

Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Moondog on Sat Oct 05 2019 09:58 am

And of course CD's would win out, they are smaller and less easily damaged than a vinyl album is. Of course, by that same standard, I'm surprised that mini-cd didn't dislodge CD, or the PSP CD cartridge didn't usurp all of them.

I'm not sure why mini-CD didn't become very popular in the US. I've heard mini-CD used a lossy compressed audio format, and perhaps that had something to do with it. Also, I've heard mini-CD audio was very hard to rip - There were no drives that could directly rip the audio, so to get the best audio rip from them, you had to plug a mini-CD player's digital output to a digital input of something that could capture/record the digital data as you played the mini-CD.

Overall I'm okay with regular CDs, being lossless and easy to rip.

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Moondog on Sat Oct 05 2019 09:58 am

Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Lupine Furmen on Fri Oct 04 2019 11:10:00

also be curious is the Maker community could reverse engineer ro develop anoth er process to translate grooves back to sound.

Don't know, may need to pass that over to our local Makers group just to see what they could come up with.

And of course CD's would win out, they are smaller and less easily damaged t a vinyl album is. Of course, by that same standard, I'm surprised that mini- didn't dislodge CD, or the PSP CD cartridge didn't usurp all of them.

-Dallas Vinson
Furmens Folly - telnet: loybbs.net:23
SSH: loybbs.net:23222
Before the Web - telnet: loybbs.net:23232
Legends of Yesteryear - telnet: loybbs.net:23322

The restoration team that developed the way to restore recordingd from
detailed images of the grooves were bale to not only recover old vinyl, but also the wax cannister recordings made by Edison. I've seen oictures of
really old discs that were made of a cement type material, and were coated
with wax. The wax was cracked opposite the direction of the lands, and the only way it could be restored is if someone edited out the fractures in the wax.

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Re: Vinyl
By: MATTHEW MUNSON to ARELOR on Sat Oct 05 2019 07:29:00

Its also sad that so many old vhs tapes are going to landfills.

Well, the problem with video TAPES is that the more times they pass across that spinning head the thiner the tape gets and they start getting stretched until they are no longer viewable. :( Which makes it such a shame that the Laser Disks never really took off.

-Dallas Vinson
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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sun Oct 06 2019 09:15 am

Well, the problem with video TAPES is that the more times they pass across that spinning head the thiner the tape gets and they start getting stretched until they are no longer viewable. :( Which makes it such a shame that the

Another problem nobody ever mentions is that VCRs are such fragile machines too. Many people has nice VHS collections, but their players died long ago and they don't feel like buying a new one, so they can watch their collection.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sun Oct 06 2019 09:15 am

Well, the problem with video TAPES is that the more times they pass across that spinning head the thiner the tape gets and they start getting stretched until they are no longer viewable. :( Which makes it such a shame that the

Another problem nobody ever mentions is that VCRs are such fragile machines too. Many people has nice VHS collections, but their players
died long ago and they don't feel like buying a new one, so they can
watch their collection.

And it's getting harder to find a repair tech to fix a VCR. I have a really nice Panasonic VCR, which I have had since the late 90s or very early 2000s. It had some issue with the tape loading mechanism a bit over 10 years ago, and I was able to get it fixed by a local tech at the time. It hasn't had a lot of use since then, but it's one machine I'd like to keep going, as long as there are VHS tapes lying around that can be played.


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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sun Oct 06 2019 09:15 am

Well, the problem with video TAPES is that the more times they pass across that spinning head the thiner the tape gets and they start getting stretched until they are no longer viewable. :( Which makes it such a shame that the Laser Disks never really took off.

Laserdisc was essentially replaced with DVDs. I'm not sure anyone really misses laserdisc. And one problem with laserdisc was that they were so expensive. I don't think they really sold many of them.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Vinyl
By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Mon Oct 07 2019 09:46:00

And it's getting harder to find a repair tech to fix a VCR. I have a really nice Panasonic VCR, which I have had since the late 90s or very early 2000s. It had some issue with the tape loading mechanism a bit over 10 years ago, and I was able to get it fixed by a local tech at the time. It hasn't had a lot of use since then, but it's one machine I'd like to keep going, as long as there are VHS tapes lying around that can be played.

If you have a local "Makers" group, I'm sure there is someone there that would be able to service any of your old tech.


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Re: Re: Vinyl
By: Gamgee to Zombie Mambo on Fri Oct 04 2019 07:15 pm

<SNIP remaining uncalled-for insults and stupidity>

Sometimes people need to be reminded that they are dicks.
You obviously need another reminder.
You're a dick.
I hope you enjoyed another round of uncalled for insults and stupidty.

Dick.


Thanks,
Zombie Mambo

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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Lupine Furmen on Sun Oct 06 2019 05:13 pm

Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sun Oct 06 2019 09:15 am

Well, the problem with video TAPES is that the more times they pass acr that spinning head the thiner the tape gets and they start getting stretched until they are no longer viewable. :( Which makes it such a shame that the Laser Disks never really took off.

Laserdisc was essentially replaced with DVDs. I'm not sure anyone really mi

Nightfox

Laserdisc was also derailed by RCA's CED technology. It was an analog video format that used a stylus to read video. It was better than VHS, but still a bit glitchy. People mistook laser video for CED.

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Re: Re: Vinyl
By: Gamgee to Zombie Mambo on Fri Oct 04 2019 07:15 pm

<SNIP remaining uncalled-for insults and stupidity>

Sometimes people need to be reminded that they are dicks.
You obviously need another reminder.
You're a dick.
I hope you enjoyed another round of uncalled for insults and
stupidty.

Yes, you are clearly showing your stupidity.

Eat a dick, chump.



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Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Oct 07 2019 13:45:00

Well, the problem with video TAPES is that the more times they pass acr that spinning head the thiner the tape gets and they start getting stretched until they are no longer viewable. :( Which makes it such a shame that the Laser Disks never really took off.

Laserdisc was essentially replaced with DVDs. I'm not sure anyone really mi

Nightfox

Laserdisc was also derailed by RCA's CED technology. It was an analog video format that used a stylus to read video. It was better than VHS, but still a bit glitchy. People mistook laser video for CED.

Yeah, I don't remember which was which but you had the format that you took out of the sleeve and place in the player like a record, and then you had the ones (I think it was the Selectavision) that you inserted the cartridges and the machine took the disk out as you removed the cartridge. The had teh nice benefit of the disk never being touched by your hands preventing oil transfer and also reducing the chances of it getting scratched.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Moondog on Mon Oct 07 2019 10:30 pm

Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Oct 07 2019 13:45:00

Well, the problem with video TAPES is that the more times they pa acr that spinning head the thiner the tape gets and they start getting stretched until they are no longer viewable. :( Which mak it such a shame that the Laser Disks never really took off.

Laserdisc was essentially replaced with DVDs. I'm not sure anyone rea mi

Nightfox

Laserdisc was also derailed by RCA's CED technology. It was an analog vi format that used a stylus to read video. It was better than VHS, but sti a bit glitchy. People mistook laser video for CED.

Yeah, I don't remember which was which but you had the format that you took of the sleeve and place in the player like a record, and then you had the on (I think it was the Selectavision) that you inserted the cartridges and the machine took the disk out as you removed the cartridge. The had teh nice benefit of the disk never being touched by your hands preventing oil transfe and also reducing the chances of it getting scratched.

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That was CED. It was analog, so there was a physical stylus, and it was possible to get dust and other particles in the grooves that would cause it
to skip. Laser disc was a large (12 inch?) version of a compact disc, and
most movies would require two discs to fit everything on. Similar to early DVD's they'd add a bunch of extra content to fill the extra space

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Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Lupine Furmen on Tue Oct 08 2019 09:50 am

it to skip. Laser disc was a large (12 inch?) version of a compact disc, and most movies would require two discs to fit everything on.

My understanding is that laserdisc was analog though (in contrast to CDs, which are digital):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserDisc#Design

Similar to
early DVD's they'd add a bunch of extra content to fill the extra space

Early DVDs? I thought they still usually put extras on DVDs (and blu-ray discs). The extras are one reason I still like having movies on optical discs. You don't get the extras with streaming versions of movies.

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Oct 07 2019 01:45 pm

Laserdisc was also derailed by RCA's CED technology. It was an analog video format that used a stylus to read video. It was better than VHS, but still a bit glitchy. People mistook laser video for CED.

This youtuber guy Technology Connections makes great videos of old tech and it's history. CED was quite the interesting "thing". Apparently the discs were a technological marvel of it's time. The player... not so much.

https://youtu.be/PnpX8d8zRIA

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Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Lupine Furmen on Tue Oct 08 2019 09:50 am

Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Moondog on Mon Oct 07 2019 10:30 pm

Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Oct 07 2019 13:45:00

Well, the problem with video TAPES is that the more times they pa acr that spinning head the thiner the tape gets and they start getting stretched until they are no longer viewable. :( Which mak it such a shame that the Laser Disks never really took off.

Laserdisc was essentially replaced with DVDs. I'm not sure anyone rea mi

Nightfox

Laserdisc was also derailed by RCA's CED technology. It was an analog vi format that used a stylus to read video. It was better than VHS, but sti a bit glitchy. People mistook laser video for CED.

Yeah, I don't remember which was which but you had the format that you took of the sleeve and place in the player like a record, and then you had the on (I think it was the Selectavision) that you inserted the cartridges and the machine took the disk out as you removed the cartridge. The had teh nice benefit of the disk never being touched by your hands preventing oil transfe and also reducing the chances of it getting scratched.

That was CED. It was analog, so there was a physical stylus, and it was possible to get dust and other particles in the grooves that would cause it to skip. Laser disc was a large (12 inch?) version of a compact disc, and most movies would require two discs to fit everything on. Similar to early DVD's they'd add a bunch of extra content to fill the extra space

Laserdisc was actually analog (not digital), so... very unlike a CD.

digital man

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Re: Vinyl
By: Android8675 to Moondog on Tue Oct 08 2019 09:04 am

This youtuber guy Technology Connections makes great videos of old tech and it's history. CED was quite the interesting "thing". Apparently the discs were a technological marvel of it's time. The player... not so much.

I also like the LGR guy on YouTube - though he tends to focus more on computer technology.

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: Android8675 to Moondog on Tue Oct 08 2019 09:04:58

Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Oct 07 2019 01:45 pm

Laserdisc was also derailed by RCA's CED technology. It was an analog video format that used a stylus to read video. It was better than VHS, but still a bit glitchy. People mistook laser video for CED.

This youtuber guy Technology Connections makes great videos of old tech and it's history. CED was quite the interesting "thing". Apparently the discs were a technological marvel of it's time. The player... not so much.

I thought that LaserDiscs were double sided. I recall havging to turn a disk over.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Tue Oct 08 2019 10:07 am

Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Lupine Furmen on Tue Oct 08 2019 09:50 am

it to skip. Laser disc was a large (12 inch?) version of a compact disc and most movies would require two discs to fit everything on.

My understanding is that laserdisc was analog though (in contrast to CDs, wh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserDisc#Design

Similar to
early DVD's they'd add a bunch of extra content to fill the extra space

Early DVDs? I thought they still usually put extras on DVDs (and blu-ray di

Nightfox

Extra footage can be found on most DVD's but it's not as elaborate as it was when the media was new, and they were trying to put added value in choosing
the newer formats. I recall when additional tracks would be added on CD's
asa selling point.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Android8675 to Moondog on Tue Oct 08 2019 09:04 am

Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Oct 07 2019 01:45 pm

Laserdisc was also derailed by RCA's CED technology. It was an analog vi format that used a stylus to read video. It was better than VHS, but sti a bit glitchy. People mistook laser video for CED.

This youtuber guy Technology Connections makes great videos of old tech and

https://youtu.be/PnpX8d8zRIA

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One of my neighvors had the deluxe CED system that played games. The remote acted as a controller, and the games were simple. One game was horse racing, and was a race that was recorded where the horses were neck and neck, then it would randomly jump to one of several possible pre-recorded combinations of horses winning and placing. IIRC there was a live action Dragon's Lair type game where each decision or timed event led to an alternate video selection.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Android8675 on Tue Oct 08 2019 01:28 pm

Re: Vinyl
By: Android8675 to Moondog on Tue Oct 08 2019 09:04 am

This youtuber guy Technology Connections makes great videos of old tech and it's history. CED was quite the interesting "thing". Apparently the discs were a technological marvel of it's time. The player... not so mu

I also like the LGR guy on YouTube - though he tends to focus more on comput

Nightfox

LGR is entertaining. First video I saw of his had to do with midi output devices from the 90's.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Android8675 on Tue Oct 08 2019 06:16 pm

Re: Vinyl
By: Android8675 to Moondog on Tue Oct 08 2019 09:04:58

Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Oct 07 2019 01:45 pm

Laserdisc was also derailed by RCA's CED technology. It was an analog video format that used a stylus to read video. It was better than VHS but still a bit glitchy. People mistook laser video for CED.

This youtuber guy Technology Connections makes great videos of old tech a it's history. CED was quite the interesting "thing". Apparently the discs were a technological marvel of it's time. The player... not so much.

I thought that LaserDiscs were double sided. I recall havging to turn a disk over.

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That might've been the case. I had a friend who ventured into laser videodiscs, and I recall the movie and extras could not fit on one side. I recall his first disc was the director's cut of Robocop.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue Oct 08 2019 09:37 pm

Extra footage can be found on most DVD's but it's not as elaborate as it was when the media was new, and they were trying to put added value in choosing the newer formats. I recall when additional tracks would be added on CD's asa selling point.

I believe added tracks are still included on CDs sometimes. Occasionally I see a new remastered music CD with previously unreleased tracks. Sometimes a new remastered album contains 2 CDs full of more bonus material. Seemed like it was still a thing they were doing.

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue Oct 08 2019 09:47 pm

LGR is entertaining. First video I saw of his had to do with midi output devices from the 90's.

I like playing music. I like to play guitar and synthesizers, so I've played with MIDI a bit over the years. One time I had a Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZX (or something) which had an audio I/O front panel for the PC case, including mini MIDI input & output ports.

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Android8675 on Tue Oct 08 2019 06:16 pm

Laserdisc was also derailed by RCA's CED technology. It was an
analog video format that used a stylus to read video. It was better
than VHS, but still a bit glitchy. People mistook laser video for
CED.

This youtuber guy Technology Connections makes great videos of old
tech and it's history. CED was quite the interesting "thing".
Apparently the discs were a technological marvel of it's time. The
player... not so much.

I thought that LaserDiscs were double sided. I recall havging to turn a disk over.

I don't think anyone said they weren't double sided. I believe you're right, that they were double sided. I watched maybe 1 or 2 movies on LaserDisc, and also remember it having to be turned over, and maybe even having a 2nd disc due to the length of the movie.

Many early DVDs were double-sided too. I remember a lot of early DVDs where one side had the movie and the other side had extras on it. Maybe the first side also had a couple extras, but the 2nd side was dedicated to extras. Then it became a trend to not make them double-sided, but to include a 2nd DVD disc with the extras on it. I'm not sure why they stopped making double-sided DVD discs. Seems like blu-ray discs could be double-sided too, but I don't recall seeing any.

Nightfox

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Re: Vinyl
By: Lupine Furmen to Android8675 on Tue Oct 08 2019 06:16 pm

I thought that LaserDiscs were double sided. I recall havging to turn a disk over.

They are. Some DVDs are double sided as well.

Laserdiscs had 2 formats CAV (Constant Angular Velocity - Spins at one speed, hold 30 minutes per side), and CLV (Constant Linear Velocity - Spins at
variable speeds (Slower on the outside) to hold an hour of video per side).

CAV was supposed to be less compressed/sharper. I had a limited edition Blade Runner that was 6 discs, 12 sides.

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I thought that LaserDiscs were double sided. I recall havging to turn a disk over.

Some of them for sure were. Two of my aunts and my grandparents all had laserdisc players, and you did usually have to turn them over about midway through a movie.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Dumas Walker to LUPINE FURMEN on Wed Oct 09 2019 05:23 pm

I thought that LaserDiscs were double sided. I recall havging to turn
a disk over.

Some of them for sure were. Two of my aunts and my grandparents all had laserdisc players, and you did usually have to turn them over about midway through a movie.

That would be annoying. DVD and blu-ray can usually hold a whole movie, unless it's a fairly long movie.

Another format I had heard about was Video CD, and Super Video CD. I don't think those were very popular in the US, but back in the day I had tried encoding some movies to Video CD format and burning them to CDs to see what they looked like when playing them. It seemed many DVD players in the US could play Video CD, even if it wasn't very popular in the US.

Nightfox

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On 10-06-19 19:16, Lupine Furmen wrote to Vk3jed <=-

@VIA: VERT/FURFOL
Re: Re: Vinyl
By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Mon Oct 07 2019 09:46:00

And it's getting harder to find a repair tech to fix a VCR. I have a really nice Panasonic VCR, which I have had since the late 90s or very early 2000s. It had some issue with the tape loading mechanism a bit over 10 years ago, and I was able to get it fixed by a local tech at the time. It hasn't had a lot of use since then, but it's one machine I'd like to keep going, as long as there are VHS tapes lying around that can be played.

If you have a local "Makers" group, I'm sure there is someone there
that would be able to service any of your old tech.

No idea, but I did hear about a fairly new repair shop on the other side of town. Got a couple of things I'd like to get fixed.


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On 10-08-19 09:50, Moondog wrote to Lupine Furmen <=-

That was CED. It was analog, so there was a physical stylus, and it
was possible to get dust and other particles in the grooves that would cause it to skip. Laser disc was a large (12 inch?) version of a
compact disc, and most movies would require two discs to fit everything on. Similar to early DVD's they'd add a bunch of extra content to fill the extra space

From memory, laserdisc was actually analog. The video was FM modulated onto a carrier (much like with VHS), then the signal was encoded in the pattern of pits (which I think defined the zero crossings of the modulated carrier). I believe the format was invented just before the advent of MPEG compression, which made both video CD and DVD practical. Video CD offered roughly VHS quality and used MPEG-1. DVD uses MPEG-2.


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On 10-08-19 10:07, Nightfox wrote to Moondog <=-

My understanding is that laserdisc was analog though (in contrast to
CDs, which are digital): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserDisc#Design

Yeah I was right. Interesting how the audio was done too.

Similar to
early DVD's they'd add a bunch of extra content to fill the extra space

Early DVDs? I thought they still usually put extras on DVDs (and
blu-ray discs). The extras are one reason I still like having movies
on optical discs. You don't get the extras with streaming versions of movies.

Yeah extras are pretty standard on DVD/Blu-Ray.


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On 10-09-19 18:26, Nightfox wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

Another format I had heard about was Video CD, and Super Video CD. I don't think those were very popular in the US, but back in the day I
had tried encoding some movies to Video CD format and burning them to
CDs to see what they looked like when playing them. It seemed many DVD players in the US could play Video CD, even if it wasn't very popular
in the US.

Yeah, I had encountered a few discs in these formats, though generally burnt ones, rather than store bought. Video quality wasn't bad - comparable to a pristine VHS tape or slightly better.


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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Dumas Walker on Wed Oct 09 2019 06:26 pm

Another format I had heard about was Video CD, and Super Video CD. I don't think those were very popular in the US, but back in the day I had tried encoding some movies to Video CD format and burning them to CDs to see what they looked like when playing them. It seemed many DVD players in the US could play Video CD, even if it wasn't very popular in the US.

I remember Video CD. it was not really something you used for movies.

I recall it being used for educational videos. They are also still popular in poor parts of Asia as far as I know. They put karaoke and party stuff in them and they used to sell like hot cakes.

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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Dumas Walker on Wed Oct 09 2019 06:26 pm

Re: Vinyl
By: Dumas Walker to LUPINE FURMEN on Wed Oct 09 2019 05:23 pm

I thought that LaserDiscs were double sided. I recall havging to turn
a disk over.

Some of them for sure were. Two of my aunts and my grandparents all had laserdisc players, and you did usually have to turn them over about mid through a movie.

That would be annoying. DVD and blu-ray can usually hold a whole movie, unl

Another format I had heard about was Video CD, and Super Video CD. I don't
them. It seemed many DVD players in the US could play Video CD, even if it

Nightfox

At one time I had a video editing or burning program that allowed multiple formats to be created, including VCD. I can't recalll how much video or how many frames ti recorded at, however I remember burning camcorder video and an oocasional single TV show to a CD. As stated, most DVD players could play
VCD as well as play mp3 and CD audio

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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Dumas Walker on Wed Oct 09 2019 06:26 pm

Another format I had heard about was Video CD, and Super Video CD. I don't think those were very popular in the US, but back in the day I had tried encoding some movies to Video CD format and burning them to CDs to see what they looked like when playing them. It seemed many DVD players in the US could play Video CD, even if it wasn't very popular in the US.

OMG MPEG-1, the compression from HELL... Block-Hell!

I have a CD-i player with the MPEG1 cart that lets you play SVCDs, gawd they were horrid. I convered a ton of VHS tapes to SVCD. Saved the VHS tapes, but now they are encoded so poorly it almost wasn't worth the effort.

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Another format I had heard about was Video CD, and Super Video CD. I don't thi
k those were very popular in the US, but back in the day I had tried encoding s
me movies to Video CD format and burning them to CDs to see what they looked li
e when playing them. It seemed many DVD players in the US could play Video CD,
even if it wasn't very popular in the US.

My older one could play them. My only real experience with them tells me
that the picture quality on sporting events was not as good as it would
have been if it had been burned to DVD-R or even maybe VHS. Of course,
that might be that the recording quality setting was set for "use less
room" instead of "best picture." I am not sure as I did not record it. :)

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Re: Vinyl
By: Nightfox to Dumas Walker on Wed Oct 09 2019 06:26 pm

Re: Vinyl
By: Dumas Walker to LUPINE FURMEN on Wed Oct 09 2019 05:23 pm

I thought that LaserDiscs were double sided. I recall havging to turn
a disk over.

Some of them for sure were. Two of my aunts and my grandparents all had laserdisc players, and you did usually have to turn them over about midway through a movie.

That would be annoying. DVD and blu-ray can usually hold a whole movie, unless it's a fairly long movie.

That's why we have dual-layer discs (for longer movies). Some players have an obvious "layer change" delay, but the better ones do not. Still, its better than having to flip the disc.

digital man

Synchronet "Real Fact" #8:
Synchronet was originally intended as a replacement for WWIV BBS software. Norco, CA WX: 78.8øF, 7.0% humidity, 3 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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Re: Vinyl
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Oct 11 2019 12:37 pm

That would be annoying. DVD and blu-ray can usually hold a whole
movie, unless it's a fairly long movie.

That's why we have dual-layer discs (for longer movies). Some players have an obvious "layer change" delay, but the better ones do not. Still, its better than having to flip the disc.

Yep.
As a side note - It seems many people aren't using optical discs any more these days, but sometimes I still like to burn backups & various things to optical discs (though not very often myself anymore). Recently I built a new PC and I decided to include a UHD blu-ray burner drive (the type that supports blu-ray discs 100GB or more, which are the ones used for 4K blu-ray movies). One thing I found is that blank writeable blu-ray discs up to 128GB seem to be available, but it seems you can only find the 100GB discs in the US. I bought a 5-pack of 128GB writeable blu-ray discs but had to buy them on Amazon Japan, as they weren't available through their US site. The price was fairly reasonable too.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Vinyl
By: Gamgee to Zombie Mambo on Mon Oct 07 2019 07:01 pm

Yes, you are clearly showing your stupidity.

And you've shown nothing.
Zombie: 1
Dick: 0

At least I give you kudos for continuing to reply, like having the last word is going to somehow make you feel like anything you've said was worth us reading...


Thanks,
Zombie Mambo

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